BBRS 2010

[Knightmare]

I think there will be many of us checking out the board as we lead up to the Bargain Bowl. I think this would also be a good time to talk about things as we head into next year. Warning this is long..lol

Feel free to discuss anything you would like about the series, suggestions, what you might like to see, etc. I am going to throw out a couple of things I am thinking about here and would like feed back on those things.

I think one of the things the series will have to consider are up coming changes in travel. I thought it might be something we would have to tackle this year but Mike has not implemented those changes yet. We know the regions and those apparently will change a bit at the beginning of the year. So this looks like an issue we will have to consider next year. Really it will all depend on how restrictive Mike makes travel between regions.

Bargain Bowl Additions - Well looking at the Breeder's Cup races and looking at the Bargain Bowl races it is time to consider adding a couple of races. I do not think I will split up the juvy races. Fillies have held their own against the colts, so I am not really considering a change with juvy races.

I think though the Dirt Mile would be an excellent addition to the series. There are several prestigious dirt mile races in real life so we could add a Dirt Mile division with a couple of races during the year and a race in the Bargain Bowl. I like this because I think this would be a competitive division, we would have bargains that are good dirt milers.

The Marathon - I like the idea of adding a long distance race, however I do worry that we may not have quality or quantity in this division. At the beginning of the year we had the Lino Challenge, and we had 9 entries, Koko Shan was outstanding earning a 99 speed figure. And he has kept it up during the year, probably would have no doubt dominated this division. I wonder if another race during the year would have produced a 9 horse field?

I am not sure where to go with this division. Should it be all dirt?, Should it be a combo such as a 12f dirt race like the Lino Challenge on dirt, The Wombat at 16f on turf, and then a bargain bowl race at 14f on dirt? I may run this division as an experiment, allowance races instead of stakes during the year to see what happens. I think though I might be leaning toward all dirt here.

Race Distances - Some races in real life are different distances than what we run our races. I like the Derby and Classic at 9.5f instead of 10f, so I am not going to list those here.

Filly and Mare Sprint - 7f Chance for Delta 6f
I am not sure why the Breeders Cup chose 7f for the fillies but they did. Should we leave the Change for Delta at 6f or move it 7f? I am open to suggestion here. I see where it might be interesting to not have the fillies and boys running the same distance.

Juvy turf 8f - Juvy turf 7f
Juvy dirt 8.5f - Juvy Dirt 7f
I am moving the Juvy races out to at least 8f next year maybe 8.5f. I was thinking of having a 6f or 6.5f stakes in August then the Stakes in October like we had this year with the El Joven and Ginger Ale, then the bargain bowl races.


Turf races in general we run at shorter distances than their real life counter parts. My thinking behind the distances for the Cougar Bite and the Vimes Distaff, is that we will draw a bigger, more competitive field at a distance where 12f horses can compete with 9f horses. So the Arc and Cougar Bite at 10f seems to fit or work out ok, although I would like to hear what you guys think. Should we move these to 12f? The Vimes out to 11f or 10.5f instead of 9.5f?

Really right now there is not much difference in turf distances outside the Wombat. So there is not really a long turf division we sort of have a middle distance division and a mile division with a lot of cross over between the two. I like that but maybe we are not doing distance runners justice over all in the series.


Equinics - I have not contacted those that run the Equinics yet, but if interest level is high enough amongst trainers here I may contact them to verify the rules a residency must use to qualify for Equinics. If I think we would not be breaking any rules or have to over haul things around here to get in I think it could be interesting. While we are not a traditional residency we have all the makings of one, we have a website, message board, restricted races, standings, awards but we are different. Not really sure any of our bargains would stand a big chance but might be fun.


Over all I am having a blast with the series. Drives me crazy I cannot get more good bargain runners but I am having fun none the less. The participation level I think is pretty solid in the series, but I would like to maybe attract a few more players to the series. I am open to any ideas on how to possibly do this.

[hawkz]

maybe see if gezlodge will call some of the bargain bowl races and post them on forum

write articles in forum and btb about bargain racing and breeding

[mtk76]

I love the idea of making the Juvy races 8f for next yr seems the right move. Hey taking a shot in Equinics what the heck would make for an interesting story although they'd obviously be up against it but sometimes the fun is in competing.

I'll write a BTB article as well on Bargain breeding to try and help promote as I think its fun and worthwhile and would appeal to others who may not be aware.

Keep up the good work!

[planoaxius]

I don't have much to add. I definitely agree with dirt mile division. 3yos have last dirt mile race The Ozark and then is expected, they will go further and get to the classic division...but not all horses like the furlong and the half extra.

Then..(but I know this note is not objective) I was really disappointed last year, when The distance of Hunt Turf Cup changed from 9.5F to 9F. I think, in sim is a big difference between those two distances..bigger than in real life. And the race became just a "longer mile". Actually, two last winners were both milers. On the other hand, I understand the reason for this change - to find a race where 10F runners can meet 8F runners and have an even fight. But I think, it is not really even.
So, I think that one longer turf route should be added to compensate "the loss" of The Hunt Turf Cup. May be new 12F turf race..would be nice.
But I know, this note can sound selfishly from the owner of the horses, which prefer longer turf races. Actually, they are still in much better situation than dirt milers...so don't take it so seriously .

Generally, I'm satisfied with the race schedule and I wouldn't change much. Because, it is quite stable, I am trying to breed for it...and may be others are doing that as well. So, I don't vote for some major changes in the race propositions.

[Knightmare]

That is the kind of feed back I am looking for. I was looking at the turf division with races at 10f, 10f, 16f, and 9.5f. I thought they where too close in distance and wanted a little variation so I moved the Hunt Turf Cup back to 9f. I know not a big change but that was the direction I went.

What I was considering with the turf division was moving the Hunt Turf Cup back to 9.5, moving the Arc to 11f, maybe 12f, and then maybe moving the Cougar Bite to 10.5f, or 11. Putting a little more variation in distances.

Mainly I think it makes things a little more interesting when there is some variation in distances. Seems a little boring with the same distance in each race, but that is why I am asking for opinions.

[axeracing]

Dirt Mile - Yes!

Marathon division - I like the idea, but are there enough bargains that can even get the distance? I don't know. Every time I breed a bargain for distance, it usually ends up spitting the bit at 5 or 6 furlongs. LOL! Narrowing the division to dirt only would only narrow it down to fewer horses, so I would go with a mixture of dirt and turf.

I don't know about the Equinics, man. Would be a good story i guess, but our horses for the most part, would probably stink the place up. Maybe our horses could pony the big dogs around before the races.

[Knightmare]

So the Dirt Mile division will be added. In real life the Met Mile (Mertropolitan) and the Cigar Mile are two prestigious races at a mile on the dirt in the states. I am partial to the Texas Mile my self although it is only a G3.

So I was thinking about an article I was going to write for the BTB on Bargain Breeding. Well I have a couple of ideas actually. We throw out a sire, and then have a panel of BTB trainers comment on the sire, who they would breed him to, etc.

My other idea would be more along the lines of Roys Snapshots series. Where maybe we do player profiles of BTB trainers where they get a chance to talk about their stables, runners, and philosophy of bargain breeding.

[Knightmare]

So the Dirt Mile division will be added. In real life the Met Mile (Mertropolitan) and the Cigar Mile are two prestigious races at a mile on the dirt in the states. I am partial to the Texas Mile my self although it is only a G3.

So I was thinking about an article I was going to write for the BTB on Bargain Breeding. Well I have a couple of ideas actually. We throw out a sire, and then have a panel of BTB trainers comment on the sire, who they would breed him to, etc.

My other idea would be more along the lines of Roys Snapshots series. Where maybe we do player profiles of BTB trainers where they get a chance to talk about their stables, runners, and philosophy of bargain breeding.

[dragnil]

The long turf races appeal to me, but it's sort of a catch 22 type situation. Not enough runners, so no races, so no runners....

I like the target of a two mile turf race in the mould of the Melbourne Cup (Gr1) in Australia, the Gold Cup (Gr1) in South Africa, the Prix Royal Oak (Gr1) in France or the Goodwood Cup (Gr2) in England. England even has the 20 furlong Gold Cup at Ascot! A 16 furlong turf race is a historical test of an older stayer and would be great to see, though obviously only if it would attract enough runners.

I do like your idea of different distances during a series. More variation is a good thing.

[mtk76]

Knightmare I think both of your BTB ideas are good and I'd be happy to participate in either one.

[planoaxius]

I would probably keep 10F for Cougar Bite. This BB day has long tradition, winners can be compared etc. Longer distance for Arc is good idea probably, real Arc is over 12F, why not the bargain simulated one. Hunt Turf Cup 9.5F...definitely!
But as Dragnil said..there is not so many horses for long turf races. May be, there would be like 6 or 7 horses in these races. On the other hand, I doubt that to breed strong 12F runner is impossible . We have to try.

[Knightmare]

What about possibly targeting specific listed stakes races in the sim?

Lets take the 2009 Turf Mile Division as an example. The three races are really spread out.

Silenus Mile in May
Kamikaze in October
Kaif in November

So to give Milers other races to consider I am thinking of sifting through some listed stakes and making it a race that you could earn division points in. Like maybe a listed stake in July or August. Ideally I would target races that might have a history of not being super tough. Giving runners other goals to aim for.

[Knightmare]

Also I got in touch with Pastures, inquiring about the Equinics. They did not for see any issues with us participating. There is likely a change this year since there are most likely going to be more than 20 participants. Entries would be determined by stakes points. Which probably would not really affect us, our runners would have stakes points and the more likely entries for us would have enough stakes points to make a 20 horse field in my opinion.

So it is there if we want to purse it.

[mtk76]

I am not sure if your intent was to have only bargain runners in the Equinics or a mix of stables supporting The Bargain Bred series. Would be interesting to see a squad mixed of 1/2 bargains and 1/2 not unless you wanted to keep it 100% pure.

[Knightmare]

Bargains are what I had in mind, although it would be interesting to see a mix of runners. Guess we can see what happens.